Blog against racism meme

[lizwilliams]

This post comes with the proviso that: I am a white, middle class Brit. Pretending that I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of racial violence and discrimination would be fatuous in the extreme.

I'm not even sure whether this is a post about racism per se or about something else.

Like matociquala, I've been accused of being too PC in my writing. I take this as a compliment, given the sort of people who do the complaining. With those novels that are set on Earth (POISON MASTER, NINE LAYERS OF SKY), I've chosen to write about other cultures because those are the ideas that grabbed me at the time. In the case of Nine Layers, I lived and worked in Central Asia and wanted to write about it. In part, it's because of this: there are a lot of people in this world who don't give a shit what the West does. They have only a vague idea of where America is (I've met several people who were surprised to learn that the UK was not part of the N American mainland). They don't like what the US does in regard to its foreign policy, but in general they're just as pissed off, and probably a lot more so, about the Russians or the Indians or the Chinese or the Israelis or the Arabs, depending on who you speak to. And not everyone wants to emigrate to the West, either: I also know several people who were granted green cards and then decided to go back or not go at all, because they didn't like what they saw of the West or because they just didn't want to leave home after all.

There is a general Chinese view (correct or not) that America's economic dominance is just a temporary aberration and during the course of the 21st century, Chinese economic hegemony will once more be restored, particularly when oil starts to run out. Recently, on the other side of the planet, a friend of mine who is a well-respected historian did a programme on ancient Orkney, for the Discovery Channel. He couldn't front the programme itself, because he's British, so they had to scour the country for a possible American presenter and came up with someone from the engineering department at Cambridge.

When I asked him if he objected, he laughed and said that the States is in exactly the same position that Britain was in a hundred years ago: there's the same ebullience and sense of self importance just before the empire crashes. So his view was that they should just be allowed to get over themselves. Under the circumstances, he's entitled to be a bit patronising, IMO.

I'm sure some people will take this as an attack on the US. It isn't - it's a great country and I am in many ways very pro-America - but it is an attack on the Western (American and, tagging along, British) perception that everyone else sees everything we do as Terribly Significant. Maybe that's the case. But it's not a global perception and I think that's why I like writing, as far as I can, from the perspective of other cultures.

Comments

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

LOL!

[cybermonklives.livejournal.com]

See, that's exactly the problem with this kind of thinking. They don't only land in the States. In fact, the highest sighting of flying saucers in Africa is in Zimbabwe and Cape Town.*

* which is perfectly reasonable. If I was an alien planning an invasion, I'd put my base of operations somewhere remote and otherwise difficult to access - namely, the jungles of Zaire(sory, is it the Republic of Congo this week?). Clearly, the UFOs are based in central Africa and are spotted on their highly-secretive missions to the United States, where they:

1) mutilate cows
2) abduct people for rectal examinations
3) try to get the secret recipes of Coca Cola and KFC**

** Of course, everyone knows that KFC use a 40-years old+ giant chicken mass from which they carve the pieces a little at a time. Fred Pohl knew all about it, and he exposed the conspiracy in The Space Merchants.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

So it really DOES taste like chicken?

This premise (UFOs landing somewhere other than the White House lawn, not the big alien chicken one) was actually what started off EMPIRE OF BONES.

[fastfwd.livejournal.com]

This is why I run around the world apologizing.:)

It is difficult to get across to people outside the US exactly how isolated the US is. It's so big and so far removed from anywhere else that most of the people in it have had no contact with anyone with a non-US background. Furthermore, the vast majority of US people will never have much, if any, contact with non-US people. (Most people in the US don't have passports--they won't need them.) Those who do meet people from other countries automatically assume that those people came to the US to "be American." They don't assume this because they are racist--it's simply what they've always been told, especially if they themselves are the children--or more likely, grandchildren or great-grandchildren of immigrants. And furthermore (again), they've been told--by parents, teachers, and their own government--that people from other countries want to go to the US to become American.

And no one--and I do mean no one has ever told them differently. Which is why USA-Americans seem so full of themselves. They just don't know any better.

Honest. I speak from firsthand experience.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

I'm sure this is true. The British can be massively insular, however, with much less excuse.

And there's also the issue that rather a lot of people moved to America to stop being slaughtered in Europe. I don't think we can take the moral high ground....

[solsticedawn.livejournal.com]

I have to add that people in Europe/UK don't seem to have any idea how big it is unless they've been here.

I wear my University of Michigan stuff wherever we go. I had a lady ask me in a pub in London if Michigan was close to Minnesota, and I told her it is. She then asked me how long it would take to drive from where I live to some destination in Northern Minnesota, and the answer was 15 hours or more. At freeway speeds.

"I thought you said Minnesota is close!"

And it is. It takes us 45 or 46 hours drive to get to parts of Texas. California or Alaska are more remote to us (California in more ways than just geography).

I have to agree that China or India will be driving the world next. American culture is already on the wane. We are showing all the signs of the next "fallen empire," right behind the British. Did I mention that our kids are learning Mandarin?

I also believe in learning the local dialect when you travel somewhere, even if it's just "please" and "thank you." It just seems polite to address people in their native language when you are actually in their country.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

Completely agree on learning other people's languages. The British are dreadful at this.

It took me about the same time to get from the Adirondacks by train to NYC as it does from one end of this country to another. On the map, it looked a very short distance...until I looked at the rest of it.

[solsticedawn.livejournal.com]

The phrase I've heard is "When in Rome, do exactly as when in England."

In my travels, though, I have to say that people understand that not all Americans are "ugly Americans." Some of us do try, and especially in countries like China, the people realize that what the government is does not reflect on the citizens.

Maybe my perception is shaped by seeing Americans from the other side. I lived in Mexico for two years and saw what Americans think is acceptable to do while away from home. I have even looked someone straight in the eye (with my blue eyes and at that time curly blondish hair) and said "Yo no habla Ingles." In actual fact, I know the people they were talking to spoke enough English to understand what the Americans were saying. I didn't want to be involved. It was plain embarassing.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

Actually, most of the people I've met have said, at one point or another, 'It's not the American (or British) people: they're just like us. It's their government.' People are much more tolerant than one might expect.

The British abroad can be mortifying. I've pretended to be Russian before now. And a German friend used to pretend to be Dutch.

[ianmcdonald.livejournal.com]

If I'm ever stuck in that kind of situation, I just play the Irish card. Works every time. Like the Australians, the Irish believe (rightly, or, I suspet, wrongly) that the world loves them.

[garunya.livejournal.com]

It's easier being Scottish. A lot of people overseas don't realise we're British. Not that we're any better than the English, but people don't always realise that either ;)

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

I also sometimes tell people I'm Welsh (which is true, but I have an English accent! Plus half the world hasn't heard of Wales either).

[ohilya.livejournal.com]

Oi! I've heard of Wales. Worry ye not, Wales. You're not forgotten!

[ohilya.livejournal.com]

You've pretended to be Russian?

That's actually the first time I've ever heard of someone doing that. Which is very neat. Could you paint a picture in words for me, of what the scenario was, and what you'd said?

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

I can't remember where it was, but it was somewhere in western Europe (I don't think I'd get away with pretending to be Russian in eastern Europe and it might be a bit silly to try, given how the Russians are regarded by their former satellite states). I think it was Crete, actually - my friend and I booked into a resort which turned out to be one of those ones which get overtaken by hordes of young, drunk, shrieking Brits every year and I was so mortified that when some Greek spoke to me, I said (in Russian) 'I'm sorry, I don't speak English; I'm from Russia.' And then fled.

We lasted two days and after that collared the person from the holiday company and insisted that we be moved. We ended up in a lovely, isolated family hotel up the coast.

[ohilya.livejournal.com]

Ti znaesh Russkii yazik? Kleva.

I can quite understand the sentiment. All too well. Feeling embarassed about one's culture? I think that's a good sign. I think.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

Da, ya znaio Russki yazik na, sozhalenyo, nyet ochen xorosho! Potomuchto ya rabotaio v Kazakhstane v 1996.

My tenses have gone all to pot and they were never very strong... Been too long!

[fivemack.livejournal.com]

I have a little Russian (two years at school); it seems to be a very good language for apologetically pushing through crowds with (skadzhitiye minye padzhalousta!)

Thanks for Nine Layers of Sky without horseradish; I hadn't seen much done with that sort of Central Asian mythology.

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

Pedantic note: the protagonist of The Ugly American was not an Ugly American. He was physically ugly, but had a beautiful soul.

[solsticedawn.livejournal.com]

THAT one has changed meaning, then. I've always heard it in reference to Americans who are ugly on the inside, irregardless of what is on the outside.

Thanks for the info. I'll look for that one!

Politically Correct

[(Anonymous)]

The Poison Master politically correct??????

Nah, where are the Health & Safety Officers or the exciting new Prime Ministerial initiatives on electronic databases.

It takes a positive view of women but then so do I, and I have testicles. It also takes a positive view of men, it's even named after the male character.

It's just a very good story.

John Lambshead

Re: Politically Correct

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

To be honest, TPM was the one that didn't cop PC 'accusations.' People complained about it being a Gothic novel instead.

I never know how to respond when people accuse me of writing something I set out to write. So I don't bother.

Re: Politically Correct

[(Anonymous)]

I rarely worry about criticism. As an academic, I am used to bucketloads. My favourite comment on the Baen site about my writings started 'I would not buy your book if it was discounted 90%...', which had the merit of honesty. I have come to the conclusion that the only test of a commercial book (as opposed to vanity publishing) is whether people buy it and want more.

I bought TPM and wanted more. I really liked that book and have plugged it on the Baen site.


Oh well back to justifying my miserable existence at work. I have put in some serious weekends work on Lucy's war in between ferrying my daugters' gear to-from Bath & Egham and have reached 13,000 words. That's a whole 10%!

Re: Politically Correct

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

Life doesn't half get in the way of writing sometimes! People who manage to juggle writing and a job AND children have my undying admiration.

And thank you very much for the plug.

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

"When I asked him if he objected, he laughed and said that the States is in exactly the same position that Britain was in a hundred years ago: there's the same ebullience and sense of self importance just before the empire crashes..."

In the 1950s, English sf writers (including Arthur C. Clarke) wrote futures in which England continued to be a major power on Earth and had become one in space. And yes, I mean England rather than Britain or UK.

Currently, a number of Americans are quite certain we still lead in technological innovation, have the world's best medical system, and are the wealthiest country -- none of which is true any more. There's also the notion that the US has won all of its wars, usually quickly.

Recent French governments seem to have taken for granted that France is as relatively powerful as it was around 1890. The Russian government doesn't seem to be in close touch with current reality either.

The good news is that Sweden has given up its imperial ambitions.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

The Russian government hasn't been in touch with reality for years, it seems to me. Britain still behaves as though it has an empire.

I dunno, though - I wouldn't mind being overlorded by Sweden. Socialist health care, saunas, decent fish....Could be worse.

[ohilya.livejournal.com]

I've never liked that historical model, that all empires wax and then wane. Mostly because it tends to obscure the details that complicate the picture. Certaintly, England was the economic power, and an incredible amount of the empire's wealth was spent fighting the first world war, and then was finally taxed to the breaking point by the second World War.

Mind you, it's important to remember that GB took out a significant loan from the US to cover war-time expenses, which it has been slowly paying off for the last fifty or so odd years. (Interest is a bitch)

Speculation about which economic strong-hold will or will not fall into decline is a fairly...silly bit of speculation. There's an amusing West Wing annecdote, where Leo McGary meets with two economists, asking what the situation will be in a year. The first says "Excellent!", the second says "Terrible." Leo quietly whispers to himself "I hate economists."

The conventional form of this discussion as is being intimated here is that other economically significant countries in the world are developing at such a rate as to one day equal the (currently) unparalleled strength of the U.S. Arguments are made that the usage of exported labour could lead to a decline in American export value, and lower the significance of the average American who, whilst living in a post-Industrial world, does not actually produce anything *physical.*

Another argument is made that the massive fiscal imbalance - citing the current debt in which the U.S. finds itself - is also a basis upon which to say 'US is declining.' Except that the debt, in comparison to the annual GDP, is not all that troubling a matter. (When you have an annual GDP of 12.41 trillion dollars, $700 billion is really not that frightening a figure, surprisingly). And with an annual growth rate of about 2-3 % (which is the standard in the US as far as I know, and one that is perceived as being normal and healthy) there's not a great deal there to worry anyone for the near future.

Furthermore, you have to remember: The rest of the world has a vested interest in maintaining a relatively stable US economy, as the US dollar is the standard against which most other currencies are measured, to say nothing of assorted economic agreements regarding exportation rights, NAFTA, etc.

Barring some financially cataclysmic war, the US isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It would be interesting to speculate: Had WW1 and 2 not drained the British economy, had uprisings in India not occurred, had the dissasemblement of its colonies not occurred: What sort of place would the UK be today?

I don't know. I suppose it might be interesting to think about. Maybe Turtledove could base a novel upon it, if he hasn't already.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

Silly, but entertaining, like many silly things. Thank you for an interesting and thoughtful post. I must admit, I'm coming at it from a loosely inductive point of view (for want of a better term) rather than an economic one...Every empire the world has seen so far has collapsed or at least dwindled (and that's subject to the usual reservations about inductive logic!).

Mind you, at least Italy, that concocted nation, hasn't done too badly since the fall of Rome, when one considers the Italian standard of living. But now I'm being flippant.

With the US, I tend to take the view that at some point, oil will run out and that will affect the place pretty badly unless something is developed to replace it. This may inded happen. Globally, however, it's likely to be the environment rather than anything economic that does for any nation one cares to name.